Entry/Exit to Greece post Brexit

[Kilkis]

I suspect that they don't know but nobody can be certain. As an EU citizen, which you still are, you have the right to come and go as you please so I don't believe any records were kept. Once the UK leaves, however, I think this will change and records will be kept. I think maintaining continuity of residency will be a potential problem going forward after 31 October, or whenever, for those wanting to leave for extended periods and then return. I don't think it is a problem retrospectively for people today. All that is just my best guess - no guarantees.

Warwick

PS Does "about to return" mean before or after the 31 October? If after you might like to think about how you would answer questions about when you left Greece if any such questions are asked.

[Carolina]

I have a beige residence document issued 3 years ago. 12 months ago I came back to UK, I am about to return to Crete permanently. My question is, how do the Greek authorities know that I have been away (indeed, do they know). I don't recall anything other than a cursory glance at my passport in either Greece or UK.

'
Proof will be required for the right of permanent residence, it seems, as below from http://brexit.gov.gr/uk-citizens-in-greece/

What are the criteria for acquiring the right of permanent residence ?
The right of permanent residence in Greece can be acquired by UK citizens who have lived in Greece legally for a continuous period of 5 years. If you fulfil this requirement, you can apply for a permanent residence document, which confirms your right to live in the country permanently, without any conditions.

With regard to the right of permanent residence, two options will be available to UK citizens: the EU Long Term Resident Status (without integration requirements) or the national permanent resident status for UK citizens (issued upon condition of continuous stay of 5 years and a criminal record control for reasons of public order and security).

Applications for the EU long term resident status can be submitted any time after the withdrawal date on the condition that the person has lived legally in Greece for an uninterrupted period of five years. Periods of absence can be taken into account when calculating this period. Further requirements are: a stable and regular source of income and health insurance. Long term EU residents enjoy the same treatment and rights as nationals in certain areas and can benefit from the possibility, under certain conditions, to move from one EU member-state to another. UK citizens with permanent resident status will enjoy equal treatment to Greek nationals, as provided for in existing legislation applied to EU citizens.

More information can be found at: https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what- ... sidents_en and http://immigration.gov.gr/web/guest/ade ... -diarkeias (in Greek).

To get a document certifying your right of permanent residence, you must submit proof that you have been living legally in the country for 5 years. You need to provide, along with your application, different supporting documents, depending on your situation (employed, self-employed, jobseeker, pensioner, student). These include:

• a valid registration certificate issued when you arrived
• evidence that you’ve been living in the country, such as utility bills and rental contracts
• evidence such as payslips, bank statements, tax returns that you’ve been working, studying, self-employed, self-sufficient or looking for work.

The authorities must issue the permanent residence document as soon as possible . The document is automatically renewable without any condition or requirement.

Applications for the new permanent resident status (new biometric residence cards) of UK citizens and their family members can be submitted at a later stage towards the end of 2020. UK citizens having a permanent resident status will enjoy equal treatment with the Greek nationals, as provided for in the existing legislation applied to Union citizens. The permanent resident permit for UK citizens will have a duration of five years. Interruption in residence not exceeding three consecutive years will not affect the validity of the new biometric permanent residence card.

[Howard]

Thanks to you both and to question from Kilkis, I am back for two weeks at end of August then permanent return early October

[YoMo2]

.............Applications for the new permanent resident status (new biometric residence cards) of UK citizens and their family members can be submitted at a later stage towards the end of 2020. UK citizens having a permanent resident status will enjoy equal treatment with the Greek nationals, as provided for in the existing legislation applied to Union citizens. The permanent resident permit for UK citizens will have a duration of five years. Interruption in residence not exceeding three consecutive years will not affect the validity of the new biometric permanent residence card.

Penultimate sentence, highlighted in red, seems contradictory?

Andrew

[Kilkis]

...The permanent resident permit for UK citizens will have a duration of five years.

Penultimate sentence, highlighted in red, seems contradictory?

Andrew

Not really. The right to remain is permanent but the actual permit, i.e. the document, is only valid for 5 years when it must be renewed. Think of it like a driving licence. Your right to drive endures but you must renew the actual licence every 10 years. The Residence Permit that used to be issued before the current Residence Certificates were introduced around 2006 was also valid for 5 years but it only meant that you had to renew it. It didn't mean that you could only stay for 5 years.

Warwick

[Carolina]

.............Applications for the new permanent resident status (new biometric residence cards) of UK citizens and their family members can be submitted at a later stage towards the end of 2020. UK citizens having a permanent resident status will enjoy equal treatment with the Greek nationals, as provided for in the existing legislation applied to Union citizens. The permanent resident permit for UK citizens will have a duration of five years. Interruption in residence not exceeding three consecutive years will not affect the validity of the new biometric permanent residence card.

Penultimate sentence, highlighted in red, seems contradictory?

Andrew

I've just re-read the source page, there is an additional sentence which I missed (now added above) -

The authorities must issue the permanent residence document as soon as possible .The document is automatically renewable without any condition or requirement.

[YoMo2]

Carolina, makes sense now, also with Warwick's point.

Cheers

Andrew

[Phil C]

Hi all,
May I just clear this question please I plan to buy a holiday home and stay for months at a time although less than 6 months per year, If I register as resident will I have free movement after Decenber 2020? or will I be subject to 90 days every 180? Thank you. Phil

[Kilkis]

Nobody knows.

If a pan-EU deal is agreed OR a bilateral deal between the UK and Greece then it depends on the terms of those deals but probably you would have relatively free movement between the UK and Greece. There might be restrictions, e.g. if you spend more than X days outside Greece in Y years you might lose your resident status but that depends on the detail of the deal. We will only know when any deal is finalised but you can read the draft Withdrawal Agreement to get an idea of what is intended. It's a 585 pages long pdf.

If there is no pan-EU deal AND no bilateral deal then you would be subject to the Schengen rule of 90 days in any 180.

Mesdames et messieurs, faites vos jeux!

Warwick

[Tim]

Not to mention the willingness/ability of the Greek authorities to implement and administer any such decisions ....

Tim

[Kilkis]

Greece is in the process of setting up a new biometric residency card system for third country nationals, which is supposed to be operational by the end of 2020. Under the terms of the draft Withdrawal Agreement the UK would be fully out of the EU by then and obviously also under a no-deal scenario so we would come under that scheme. The aim is to continue to recognise EU permanent residency documents held by UK citizens until the end of 2020 and then exchange them for the new biometric third country cards immediately after the end of 2020. Administratively there does not appear to be a problem, although it is possible that the Greek government will not implement the scheme on time. There might be delays in areas where there is a very high concentration of UK ex-pats, such as Apokoronas, but most areas should be dealing with a relatively small number of applicants.

According to the UK Embassy in Greece there does seem to be a strong willingness on the part of the Greek government to have a bilateral deal if there is no pan-EU deal so I don't think that should be a problem. I think the Embassy and the Greek government are acting in good faith. My main concern is that the bilateral deal might not extend to reciprocal healthcover while healthcover could be a condition for getting the new card.

Warwick

[grana1963]

Hi...I have just discovered that I may be a dual citizen British/Irish. This should entitle me to free movement within the EU and residency in Greece hopefully in a few years when I retire. My question is how would this affect my wife who only holds a British passport regarding residency as we intend to stay in Crete between 6 & 8 months per year. Or where could I find this info.....thank you....also how would I stand regarding health care ?

[Keltz]

See https://transferwise.com/us/blog/health ... in-ireland

[Kilkis]

It is possible for the spouse of an Irish citizen to become an Irish citizen. See here. Thus if you became an Irish citizen, e.g. because a parent or grandparent was an Irish citizen, then your wife should also be able to become an Irish citizen. I don't know if you can both apply together or if you would need to do it in two steps, i.e. you first and then your wife, but the Irish consular service should be able to advice you. They may have a lot more important issues on their plate at the moment, You would both then be able to travel freely to and from Greece as EU citizens using your Irish passports.

If you have never worked in Ireland nor contributed to the Irish state through taxes etc I can't see the Irish government providing you with reciprocal healthcare in Greece. I might be wrong and you could always ask but I would be prepared for a negative response. Assuming you have worked in the UK, have contributed to NI and have become a UK State Pensioner it is uncertain if the UK will provide you with reciprocal healthcare in Greece. They are committed to providing it for UK citizens who fall within the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, i.e. they are living legally in Greece before the end of the transition period, e.g. the end of 2020, and have acquired Greek residency even if they don't become entitled to a UK State Pension until after the end of the transition period. It sounds like you wouldn't fit in that category. Whether the UK would provide reciprocal healthcare if you are living in Greece because of your Irish citizenship would probably depend on what is negotiated for UK-EU relations during the transition period. It is possible that the UK might continue some sort of reciprocal healthcare relationship as part of that agreement or they might not. Even if there is a new reciprocal healthcare relationship, it is possible that any such agreement might include those on a UK State Pension or it might not. We will not know until a deal between the UK and the EU is agreed. An example of Rumsfeld's "known unknowns"

Warwick