Greece Flight Ban Extended to 15 May 2020

[Kilkis]

Congratulations on your success. I am very pleased for you. I have never said you did anything wrong. I am sure everybody is making claims. My original post was simply to give a possible explanation of why people are finding it difficult to get cash refunds.

Warwick

[Kamisiana]

Interesting https://www.marketingeye.com/blog/cultu ... -word.html

[Maud]

Back on track!

I appreciate this thread is about flights, but this might be of interest to others who use the ferry route....as we do.

We were booked with ANEK/Superfast from Italy to Greece on the 15th April. Obviously we realised this wasn’t going to happen as soon as Italy closed its borders.

We kept checking the ANEK website, and up until the 14th April it was stating that bookings would be honoured for 12 months from the initial sailing date. However, on the 16th the website changed, and it then mentioned an 18 month extension to sailing dates for anyone with a ticket from that day. - If, after 18 months, you could not use your ticket, you could have a full refund.

We contacted ANEK/Superfast to say our ticket was for the 15th.....so we assumed we were covered by their updated website? They emailed back confirming we have 18 months to use our tickets, and if we don’t, we can have the full refund of all tickets we have booked already. We are happy with that. - I fail to see that a shipping line like ANEK will go bust, as much of it’s cargo is commercial anyway, and the ships are still operating for lorries etc.

We have not asked for our money back, so I am not sure what would happen if we did, but we are happy to let ANEK hold it for now. The other good thing was that we had used their ‘early booking discount’....which is normally non-refundable. We have been told that if we book in 2021 and our new sailing costs are more than 2020, we will still get a discount on any extra we have to pay. - That seems very fair to us.

[mouche]

Congratulations on your success.

Had nothing to do with success, or lack of same, as I reeived the refund without asking for it and not having done anything at all acutally. It has to do with Sky Express knowing, and honouring, their legal obligations (EU-rules and even in the USA) contrary to what f.inst. Aegean are doing as they have NOT offered me a refund as an option. SAS and Norwegian has offered full refund but not coming thru with the refund as they probably are not in a financial position to do so.

[Kilkis]

I watched an interview with O'Leary today in which he quoted some figures that people might find useful to contemplate. He said that of the team that handle refunds approximately 25 % are currently working. The reduction is due to people self isolating, either because they have symptoms or a member of their family have symptoms that could be due to COVID-19, or due to travel bans on people travelling to work. That is following government advice. At the same time the number of claims for refunds being made in any given period has increased by a factor of 1,000, i.e. in a normal month they deal with about 10 thousand claims for odd cancellations while in April they are trying to process 10 million because all flights are cancelled. That means that they simply cannot process the claims independent of any financial constraints. I would imagine the same problems are being faced by most airlines. The voucher system is automated so it is not limited in the number it can process.

Warwick

PS He actually said they were receiving claims up by a factor 10,000 but when you look at the numbers he quoted he must have had a Diane Abbot moment.

[mouche]

But have they reimbursed/refunded anybody at all?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -s-Po-yFVU

[Kilkis]

I think the article you link answers your question. Also one paragraph from the article sums it up, my emphasis in red:

Some carriers, such as Air France and KLM, have refused to offer refunds before a 12-month period has elapsed, issuing credit notes or allowing rebooking instead. Which? said it was “a fair solution and a reasonable balance between the protection of their passengers and the operational realities that every airline has to face”.

In case some forum members aren't aware, Which? is a totally independent, UK consumer protection organisation that has government authority to act as a "super complainer" on behalf of consumers. It has no affiliation to any industry body of any kind. It's sole purpose is to act on behalf of consumers. While the Air France/KLM solution is not identical to the one I proposed earlier, i.e. issuing vouchers that can be used after the crisis is over without time limits or that can be redeemed for cash at a later date, it has the same aim, i.e. a balance between protecting consumers and dealing with reality.

Warwick

[mouche]

Would you say it's only fair that they reimburse taxes/dues which I have paid them, and they in turn no longer need to pass on to the authorities as no longer relevant/due since no flight performed? Or should I consider this a gift to the owners of the airlines, if so why?

They have sofar to my knowledge not refunded/reimbursed anybody even the taxes they have collected on behalf of the authorites.

[Kilkis]

You really don't understand what I am saying at all do you Mouche? You seem obsessed with fairness. It is not fair that hundreds of thousands of people are dying but it is happening. It is not fair that hundreds of thousands of people are losing their jobs but it is happening. It is not fair that millions of people cannot travel where they want to go but it is happening. It is not fair that tens of thousands of businesses will go into liquidation but it is happening. It is not fair that I cannot go to a café, to a taverna or to the beach but it is happening. No, it is not fair that people are not getting a refund but it is happening. Why do you think that particular piece of unfairness should or is capable of being solved?

Businesses are dynamic. Money flows in and money flows out. When you pay for a ticket the airline does not put your Euro in a cocoa tin and then take it out and use it to pay costs on the day that you fly. The money is not sat on a shelf for them to pick up and refund to you. Airlines have zero money flowing in. Airlines run on massive debt not on a cash surplus. The money simply is not there. It does not exist.

Warwick

[Kamisiana]

Anyway getting back to the original post "Greece flight ban extended"
Yesterday Michael O'Leary said it would be ridiculous not to fill the middle seats on flights as suggested, for the first time ever I must agree but not for the same reason as him.
Until there is a vaccination or cure for Covert -19 how can airports and flights start running again when bars/pubs/restaurants/and sports events be shut down to stop people mixing,absolutely everything about air travel is a perfect way to spread a virus from check in to security the boarding gate the free for all to board and sitting in an aluminium tube shoulder to shoulder with people that have come close to other passengers from the four corners of the world breathing the same recycled air for hours on end, international tourism and flights might be a thing of the past for some time to come.

[mouche]

You really don't understand what I am saying at all do you Mouche? You seem obsessed with fairness.

Can't see anything wrong with fairness. In my world it's totally unfair that the airlines refuse to reimburse money they are supposed to pass on to the authorites as taxes paid by me, not them, but now not (having to) paying the government since the flights do not occur and refuse to reimburse me same. You still don't get it it do you?

No need to (try) make me feel bad refering to people dying or loosing their jobs as not reimbursing me this money, my money, will not save any lives nor any jobs.

[Kilkis]

In case it helps anybody, here is the experience of a friend in the UK. She had flights booked to Crete for Pascha with Ryanair that were cancelled by Ryanair. She had paid for the tickets with her bank debit card. She applied to Ryanair for a cash refund and received an email that a refund would be repaid into her bank within 20 days although it might take a further 5 days for the bank to process it. As expected, after 25 days no money was received. She then went directly to her bank and gave them all the details. She asked for a refund to be made under "Chargeback Rules". The bank was very helpful and very quickly refunded the money to her account. They said that they would pursue Ryanair's bank to return the payment to them. Always easier to let banks fight it out than go toe-to-toe with Ryanair yourself. Chargeback is not a legal right but a customer service promiss so it is at the discretion of the bank.

Chargeback should also work if the payment had been made with a credit card and is worth trying first. If it doesn't work you can then try to get a credit card refund under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Another friend had tickets from Crete to the UK in May that have also been cancelled by Ryanair. He has made the same claim for a cash refund and received the same sort of reply. He is now waiting for the 25 days to expire and intends to also contact his bank for a Chargeback refund. His credit card was issued by his bank, i.e. not an independent credit card company. I'll report back what happens.

Further information available here and more generally here.

Warwick

[Kookla]

Thanks everso for this link to Martin Lewis’ site and chargeback, it is most informative. I have forwarded it to friends in the UK too.